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The Paid Leave Podcast
Paid Leave is a hot topic in our country right now. The United States is the only industrialized nation in the world without a national paid leave policy, and Connecticut is one of only 13 states and the District of Columbia to have a state program in place. Other cities and states are working to join the paid leave movement. The Paid Leave Podcast examines the state of Connecticut's paid leave program and the impact it has on various groups and diverse communities. Radio veteran Nancy Barrow interviews the people who fought to make paid leave a reality in Connecticut, and those who will ultimately benefit from the program. The states with paid leave include Connecticut, Rhode Island, California, New Jersey, New York, Washington, Massachusetts, Oregon, Maryland, Delaware, Minnesota, Colorado, Vermont, New Hampshire, Illinois, Minnesota and the district of Washington, D.C.
The Paid Leave Podcast
Research Shows Paid Leave Policies Can Help Reduce Infant Abuse and Neglect
In this episode of The Paid Leave Podcast, I speak with Dr. Lindsay Rose Bullinger. Dr. Bullinger is an associate professor and researcher in the School of Public Policy at Georgia Tech and is the Associate Director of the Health Economics and Policy Innovation Collaborative. We discussed paid leave policies and how it affects children and families. Dr. Bollinger's research in the paper titled, "More Than Snuggles, the Effect of Paid Family Leave on Infant Maltreatment" shows that state-sponsored paid family leave programs reduce infant maltreatment rates and home removals by 46 percent. The study, which focused on California, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and New York, highlights the importance of paid leave in improving maternal mental health and reducing financial stress. Dr. Bollinger emphasizes the need for more research on the long-term effects of paid family leave and its potential to reduce child abuse and neglect.
To find out more about Dr, Lindsey Rose Bullinger's research please go to: Paid Family Leave Helps Reduce Infant Abuse, School of Public Policy Study Finds | Ivan Allen College of Liberal Arts
To find out more information or to apply for benefits please go to: CT Paid Leave
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Hello Connecticut, and welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. The title basically says it all. I'm Nancy Barrow, and I will be delving into this new state program and how it can help you and your family. This podcast will give you information you should know about Connecticut Paid Leave and maybe just a little bit more!Connecticut Paid Leave brings peace of mind to your home, family and workplace. Welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. We're very lucky to have such a comprehensive paid leave policy here in the state of Connecticut. We are part of a group of 13 states and Washington D.C. that have passed paid leave policies when a qualifying need arises. And all of the states right now are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Washington and the District of Columbia. 10 of these programs are providing benefits now, and four more are finalizing regulations and systems to allow benefits to start in 2026 an article that our team saw about how paid family leave may protect against rising infant maltreatment rates crossed us and we talked about it. And the author of that article is Dr Lindsey Rose Bollinger. She's an associate professor and researcher in the School of Public Policy at Georgia Tech and the Associate Director of the Health Economics and Policy Innovation Collaborative. She is currently a co-editor of the Journal of policy analysis and management and a consulting editor for child maltreatment. She is also a faculty affiliate with Georgia Policy Babs, the Wilson Sheehan Lab for economic opportunities and the Children's Pediatric Research Alliance. And her research examines how public policies affect children and families, health and well being with a focus on low income families, and her work focuses on the role of public policies in child abuse and neglect and the effects of health policies on children and families. And thank you so much for being on The Paid leave podcast. Dr Bollinger.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:It's a pleasure. Thank you for having
Nancy Barrow:Dr Bollinger, I know that some of the questions me. I asked you weren't in your research, but I'm just going to ask you to talk about it from the best of your ability. I reached out to you, and you were so gracious to come on this podcast to talk about it. So thank you so much for sharing your findings with us.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Of course, I'm really excited to talk about this work. I think it's very important and has some some interesting policy implications.
Unknown:Yeah, it sure does. How did you get involved as a researcher at the School of Public Policy at Georgia Tech?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Sure. So I did my PhD in public affairs at the Indiana University. And while I was in graduate school, I became very interested in the role of public policy and Child and Family Well Being, and one of my dissertation chapters was on the role of paid family leave in maternal mental health. And at that time, there was kind of a lot of research on paid family leave, but it was almost exclusively from European context or other developed countries. And part of this is because at that time, when I was in graduate school in 2014, 15, there were not many state programs in the United States. And since then, of course, we've had a lot more, as you noted, but at that time, there really wasn't much research on us programs, and so during graduate school, I I spent a good deal of time understanding the landscape of the research at that time on the role of paid family leave.
Nancy Barrow:So interesting. And how did the research for your article "More Than Snuggles, the Effect of Paid Family Leave on Infant Maltreatment?" How, how did you begin that research for this to actually start to become a project that you did?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Yeah, so in my dissertation chapter, as I noted, one of the projects that I worked on in graduate school was the studying the effects of paid family leave on maternal mental health and well being, and I found significant improvements in maternal mental health using California as the case study. And from there, I began doing other research in the landscape of child abuse and neglect. Along with my co-authors on this paper, Carrie Racien, and some other colleagues from Prevent Child Abuse America, and as we were studying, as I became more into the research on child abuse and neglect, I you know, we sort of thought about, well, what are some other policies that are maybe not within the child protective services system, that could potentially have significant effects on Child Abuse and Neglect. And so we began looking at other policies, things like minimum wage policies, things like the Earned Income Tax Credit, the SNAP program, the WIC program, and this paid family leave program was, was one of the the ideas that we had, in part, partly because we came because of my dissertation chapter that found improvements on maternal mental health, which is a risk factor, particularly for infant maltreatment.
Nancy Barrow:Yeah, It's so interesting that this research. Did it? Did you work with UConn? Did you work with the University of Connecticut on this project?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Sure, one of my co authors carries it is a professor at the University of Connecticut.
Nancy Barrow:Oh, that's so cool. We didn't realize that there was that connection there. Awesome.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:She and I are actually long time co authors on several different projects.
Nancy Barrow:That's great. That's wonderful. Did you interview people? Or what were some of your references for your data? Where does like that data come from?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Yeah. So for this project on child abuse and neglect, we were looking at administrative data from all states across the country on referrals of child abuse and neglect to child protective services agencies. And so there's a national repository of data that that have this this information. And so what we did was, over the time period from 2004 to 2019 we looked at Child Abuse and Neglect referrals, particularly for infants, before and after each state during that time period implemented its paid family leave program. So by now we've got several more states that have a program, but during the course of our study, these states would have been California, New Jersey, Rhode Island and New York.
Unknown:Yeah, those were the big ones at the beginning. And what were some of the factors that you found that led to parents abusing their infants or maltreating their infants? What were some of the factors that you found?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:So we did not actually look specifically at some of these factors, but there is a very wide ranging literature that's been well established that shows various risk factors for child maltreatment, especially for young children. And so some of these risk factors are household financial resources, having having low income, essentially or low material needs, low material resources, parental engagement. When parents are more they are better attuned their children's behaviors and more likely to to respond in positive parenting practices rather than harsher parenting practices. And then lastly, parental mental health and family relations is sort of how we're thinking about this. And so this, could be certainly postpartum depression among mothers, but also just the relationships between family, family members. And so the birth of a new child is a very exciting time, but it's also a very stressful time, and household relationships, intra household relationships, can sometimes become a bit more tenuous because people aren't sleeping as much as maybe they ordinarily would, or the nature of their relationship also just changes when there's a whole new person in the household, especially a whole new person who requires constant care, and so these relationships change. Parents, mental health changes. They're the way that they're parenting, both the new child and other other children who might be in the household. Those also change. Those dynamics change as well. And then there's a some, some really interesting research showing changes in household income at in the months surrounding childbirth. And the time period around childbirth is a very financially precarious time period in terms of financial resources. And so the idea here is that if paid family leave can alleviate at least some of these factors, maybe it buffers the financial hit that sometimes accompanies the birth of a child. Maybe it allows a parent to stay home for longer periods of time, to bond with their child and to spend time recovering from childbirth. Maybe it allows the family members to be less stressed and to have more positive interactions with one another, any combination of these different factors could all be drivers for improving child health and well being. And in this paper, in this paper, we are specifically looking at child abuse and neglect, right? So it could be um. Such that any of these combination of factors improves parenting practices and engagement with their children.
Nancy Barrow:Yeah, it's a stressful time for parents. You know, like you said, the adjustment period. Did you find in your research that if infant abuse is happening, that there may be more family violence happening in the home?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:These two are correlated. We did not specifically look at this in our paper. There have been other papers that have shown similar improvements in household dynamics, in the form of infant, excuse me, in the form of intimate partner violence.
Nancy Barrow:And I just want to note that that Connecticut Paid Leave has a safe leave that we have in our program. It gives 12 days of income replacement to domestic violence or sexual assault survivors to move, or find medical or psychological treatment, to use domestic violence services, or to go to criminal or civil court. And it also our Connecticut FMLA also gives 12 days to take the leave and protect your job. Connecticut sort of stands apart from other leave programs with this safe leave. How significant is this safe leave? Do you think?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:I think that's an open question. I To my knowledge, there's not been a study on this particular policy. You said this is new, though, right? I
Nancy Barrow:well, the safe leave is new just because it added sexual assault in October, but we have had that provision for domestic violence survivors to take 12 days of income replacement.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Okay, so this, I would guess, based on the empirical research that has been done that this would improve family dynamics and intimate partner violence outcomes and probably other outcomes as well. Though, to my knowledge, there has not been an empirical study on this topic. So I think it's a good open question.
Nancy Barrow:There you go. Your next project.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Exactly,
Nancy Barrow:We know that children of parents who take paid leave may get more parental care and breastfeeding and immunizations if parents are able to stay home longer after birth. Have you found that parents who take the entire 12 weeks do better than the parents who go back to week to work before the 12 weeks or in this in the terms of stress or infant abuse?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Yeah, this is a good question, and I don't think we have the answer. Well, I know we don't have the answer to it. The challenge, I think, with answering this question is having better quality data. So for example, we don't know in our data on Child Abuse and Neglect referrals, we don't know which parents were able to actually take paid family leave after the birth of their children. A lot of data sets don't ask these type of questions if they're surveys. And administrative data on a lot of different outcomes don't necessarily include that information. So usually, if you have administrative data on some outcome like child abuse and neglect, you'd have to have that linked to other administrative data sources on leave taking, for example, and claim filing, and we, for this paper, we don't have access to those linkages. And in particular, in this paper, we would have to have that for multiple states. And that's a very large undertaking, one that I encourage researchers to try to do, but it is a very hefty investment, and a lot of times, states are not always willing to to partner with researchers in this way. So So unfortunately, I think that's a the answer. The short answer is, I don't know. The longer answer is that, you know, it's possible that there are linear returns to paid family leave, and what I mean by that is, the longer the leave is, the more helpful it is for family members. But there also might be a point where it actually becomes counter productive, and that might be different for moms than what it is for dads and what it is for babies. And so those sort of what we might think of as like optimal levels of leave might be very different for each different member of the household. And it's one that I've been quite curious for a while, curious about for a while, but we don't have an answer to that right now.
Nancy Barrow:I know that you mentioned good maternal health just is good maternal health tied to the good infant health and a decrease in infant abuse. Is that what you found in this paper?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:So we did not look at that in this particular paper, but there is research showing that maternal mental health and infant health are correlated with one another. It's not necessarily known at this point if it's a causal relationship or not, but they are correlated. And you know, one other thing to consider is that paid family leave is in terms of wage replacement. It's not 100% right? So if the prior. Primary mechanism here is financial resources. Well, then it's actually better for parents to go back to work if the primary mechanism is not necessarily financial resources, then, then that's maybe not necessarily true. So I think it's possibly a combination of these different things, right? So for example, as we're talking about partner involvement. Certainly, we know that that's important. But if families really need the financial resources, then it's actually probably better for the family, somebody in the family, to go to work, right, rather than taking a less than 100% wage replacement or take some time off. And you know, these are all every family is going to be different in terms of what their optimal leave length is, but on average, this this question about what's what's best for moms and what's best for dads, and how does that help with infant health and well being it's a really important question, And one that I don't think we really have a very satisfying answer for.
Nancy Barrow:Let's just talk about the social benefits of paid family leave. Connecticut is like a really rich state, but there are pockets of real, critical economic insecurity. Does paid family leave help in those instances where there might be poverty helping with the reduction of infant maltreatment.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Yeah, so there are a few different ways to think about this question. One is that families, parents and lower income families are oftentimes less privy to paid family leave through their employer, and so they really are relying on state programs to fund their leaves or to not take any leaves at all if they need to get back to their jobs. And so there has been research showing that paid family leave programs that are state sponsored have larger impacts in terms of short term employment and financial hardships they are they have stronger effects for parents from lower income households. In part, for this reason, it's also where was I going with that second part in this particular study, it's also true that children from low income families are disproportionately involved in the child welfare system, and so these two populations overlap quite a bit for the context that we're studying here. That isn't necessarily true in all contexts, but in these states that we have studied, there is good evidence to show that lower income families have benefited substantially more than higher income families from the paid family leave program.
Nancy Barrow:So it decreases the removal of kids from their homes and into social services, which is another expense for the state.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:That's right, it is another expense for the state. We can't actually identify whether the children that are removed from their homes or at lower rates in this particular study, or that are less likely to be referred to child protective services agencies. We don't know whether, whether these children come from higher income or low income families, so we can't speak to that directly, but there is a large disproportionality of House of low income households in the child welfare system and that are benefiting the most from paid family leave.
Nancy Barrow:Yeah, and I imagine that some might be single moms, which is a struggle in itself,
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:Absolutely certainly, children from single female headed households are also disproportionately involved in the child welfare system.
Nancy Barrow:Yeah, we have something called caregiver leave, where someone can actually help a single mom and the and that caregiver can get income replacement from a paid leave program to help the mom after the baby's born. So Connecticut Paid Leave allows caregivers who are family or friends or that are like family. We call it related by affinity, so it's a pretty, you know, expansive definition of family. So they could take time off to help the mom if she's recuperating from giving birth, maybe a C section or something like that, and she has no partner there. So how significant is that kind of program to a single mom, to have help from a friend or a loved one when you're feeling overwhelmed and you're alone.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:oh, I'm sure it's, it's quite huge. Again, I don't, I'm not speaking here off of empirical evidence. I don't think we have a strong enough base for that, but I think we have a strong enough literature on sort of what it takes to raise a child and for positive child development and for positive household dynamics and interactions. And so, you know, having a strong support during the postpartum period is very important, and a lot of people, unfortunately, don't have that. And if they are trying to get back to work very quickly, then you know, any sort of financial resources that can potentially help either the mothers or the parents or, you know, the family by affinity, I love that term, to support these children. I mean, it's really all about the children and the parents who are recovering as well from childbirth. It's a very serious procedure to have a child, and people are oftentimes expected to sort of bounce back as quickly as possible. And that's not necessarily how the human body works.
Nancy Barrow:We call that, we look at pregnancy as a serious health condition. That's why you can take Connecticut Paid Leave. And it is. It is a really, you know, it's a serious health condition. What was your end game for your research? What was something that you wanted to have come out of your research?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:So when, when states are considering implementing a paid family leave program, a lot of times, the conversation revolves around effects on employment and effects on families, but it's rare that thinking about child abuse and neglect and and other state agencies like Child Protective Services. It's rare that these components are brought up in the conversation, and maybe that's because we haven't had strong empirical evidence for this or to sort of bring these outcomes and this dimension to the conversation. So the goal of our research is to really get a strong sense for what are the costs and what are the benefits of paid family leave programs, so that policy makers at the state, at the local, at the federal level, can have these estimates and have this information and this data to make better decisions for their constituents and for their residents, because these these types of policies, I think, have been missing a big component in the in the conversations, and so we're hoping that by providing some of that evidence, that we can strengthen the debate and strengthen the information that's used in the debate. really.
Nancy Barrow:I think that's fantastic. I mean, you know, we are the only industrialized nation that does not have a national policy, and, and it's, it's, I think there's like, Tonga, Micronesia, Palau, things like that, that that don't have a national policy. But, yeah, we were, we are absent of a national policy. And I hope that that changes sometime.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:I mean, there's so much research now showing, particularly in the short term, how beneficial these programs are for women and children and families and state governments as well. I think we also need more research in terms of the longer term effects. And so it's an ongoing debate, as I like to say. And as a researcher, you know, there's always been the new research to study to strengthen the evidence base.
Nancy Barrow:Did anything surprise you while you were doing your research?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:So my biggest surprise from this paper was the effects on the home removal. So in this paper, what, what we find is that state paid family leave programs reduce infant maltreatment report rates, but they also reduce the rate at which infants are removed from their homes by about 46% and that's a that that was very interesting to us. We expected to find improvements in child abuse and neglect referrals, but if you think about home removals as being, in some ways, a proxy or a measure of more extreme or more severe abuse and neglect. We were a bit surprised by this, but this was very robust in all of our estimates.
Nancy Barrow:Yeah, so were you really satisfied with how this this research, kind of concluded? Are you really satisfied with everything that happened in your research?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:We are excited that we have findings and that we are sharing these findings with the world. I think, I think these results were mostly in line with what we expected, but our goal as researchers is to bear the evidence and find the truth, and so if the results would have gone a different way. That would not have been unsatisfying. That would have been, well, this is what happens when paid family leave programs are are implemented. In this particular case, we see improvements in child abuse and neglect and so, so that's good, right? I think, I think most reasonable people can agree that we would like less abuse and neglect of children, especially when we think about infants. And so now we have a a very tangible way that we can potentially reduce abuse and neglect. And so that is very satisfying when we think about all the abuse and neglect of children that that's out there in the US. How can we lower that rate? Well, one of the things that that my team and I are doing is trying to find, what are the solutions for this, for this problem, and one of them, not the only one, of course, but one of them is, well, let's implement paid family leave programs. And it's not free, right? These are expensive programs, but Child Abuse and Neglect is a really costly problem for society, and it has all sorts of consequences in the long term. And so if we can reduce abuse and neglect early in life, we're setting kids off on a much better path. So to find a solution that actually works and is effective at reducing abuse and neglect that is very satisfying. That wasn't necessarily what we set out to do right? We wanted to really, truly understand, is this a policy solution for abuse and neglect? And it turns out, yes, it is.
Nancy Barrow:What are the most critical times for infants for maltreatment, was, did you find a time that was it the first few weeks of of life?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:What we know from from data is that infants are at the highest risk of maltreatment, and the the risk for maltreatment lowers with each year of age. So infant maltreatment is a very serious policy problem that we need to devote a bit more attention to as policy scholars and and policy makers. So within the first year, I'm not exactly sure, and part of this is because a lot of times we don't have the data that disaggregate between, for example, a child who is one month old versus a child who is 11 months old, at least within the child maltreatment reports data at national level.
Nancy Barrow:And what would you like people to take away from this podcast with you Dr.Bollinger?
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:The paid family leave programs have been spreading across the country, and a lot of these are motivated by factors such as, you know, bonding with with children, or it's good for parents. Sometimes there are arguments that it's good for states. We're showing here that it's good for a lot of things. We're showing here, that child abuse and neglect reduces in the short term. We don't show the long term effects here, but we know that child abuse and neglect has a lot of negative consequences in the long term. And so this research highlights the potential very long term benefits of paid family leave that hasn't been explored as much in research or included in the policy debate as much. And so my hope is that that we can use this information about reducing abuse and neglect and saving for child protective services agencies and savings for all state agencies. I hope we can use this information in the debates and the dialog regarding paid family leave programs.
Nancy Barrow:So I want to thank you, Dr Lindsay Bollinger of Georgia Tech, the School of Public Policy, your research for being on The Paid Leave Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.
Dr. Lindsey Bullinger:It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.
Nancy Barrow:For more information or to apply for benefits. Please go to ctpaldleave.org This has been another edition of The Paid Leave Podcast, please like and subscribe so you'll be notified about new podcasts that become available. Connecticut Paid Leave is a public act with a personal purpose. I'm Nancy Barrow, and thanks for listening!