The Paid Leave Podcast

One Mom's Crusade to Inspire Hope in Young Adults and Raise Awareness for Suicide Prevention

• The Connecticut Paid Leave Authority • Season 3 • Episode 23

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September is National Suicide Prevention Month. Suicide is a leading cause of death and affects people of all ages. 1.6 million people attempt suicide every year in the United States, and 3.6 million made a plan. Suicide is a serious health crisis.
When a person dies by suicide, the effects are felt by family, friends, and communities. Marisa Giarnella is the co-founder of the Jordan Porco Foundation, that was created in the memory of her son Jordan who took his life as a freshman in college. The foundations goals are to prevent suicide, promote mental health, and create a message of hope for young adults. Marisa says one suicide can affect over 130 people. We talked about Jordan, their flagship program known as Fresh Check Days a sort of mental health check-in at colleges across the country, and how to get through a suicide in the family. Marisa says that mental health needs to be talked about and destigmatized. She also says it's ok to ask for help.

To get in touch with the Jordan Porco Foundation go to: Jordan Porco Foundation Jordan Porco Foundation | Suicide Awareness and Prevention (rememberingjordan.org)

The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline for Immediate Help call: 1.800.273.8255

Or Text HOME to 741741

Dial 988

OR DIAL 2-1-1 TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT IN YOUR AREA   
OR DIAL 9-1-1 IN AN EMERGENCY

For more information or to apply for benefits go to ctpaidleave.org


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Nancy Barrow:

Hello Connecticut, and welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. The title basically says it all. I'm Nancy Barrow, and I will be delving into this new state program and how it can help you and your family. This podcast will give you information you should know about Connecticut Paid Leave and maybe just a little bit more. Connecticut, paid leave brings peace of mind to your home, family and workplace. Welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. September is Suicide Prevention Month. Suicide is a leading cause of death in the United States and a major public health concern, and when a person dies by suicide, the effects are felt by family, friends and their communities. Connecticut suicide rates in 2021 was twice the rate of homicide. The suicide rate for the state is highest for persons 25 to 34 years of age. And according to the 2021 Connecticut School Health Survey, 14.1% of students in grades nine through 12 said they seriously considered a suicide attempt during the previous 12 months. Marisa Giarnella Is the co-founder of the Jordan Porco Foundation, which she established in memory of her son Jordan, who died by suicide in 2011 and the foundation focuses on suicide prevention, mental health awareness among young adults, something Connecticut paid leave covers for workers in Connecticut so they can take care of themselves if they're suffering, or they can take care of a loved one, like a teenager who may be suffering from mental health issues. And I kind of wanted to just connect the dots so we could establish what Connecticut paid leave does, and the intersection with the Jordan Porco foundation, but thank you so much for being on The Paid Leave Podcast. Marisa,

Marisa Giarnella:

Thank you so much.

Nancy Barrow:

I appreciate you coming and talking about this first just let me say I'm so sorry that you had to start this foundation. What a tragedy for you and your family. How did you find this strength and the resilience to continue and create this foundation.

Marisa Giarnella:

One of the things you know, knowing Jordan and this tragedy that really back 13 years ago, people weren't talking about suicide like they are now, I just really felt something good had to come out of this, the tragedy. I didn't want my son to be defined by this. One of the things we did was, I'm a career social worker. I've been a social worker, you know, almost 40 years. We did talk about these topics in my home, way back, you know. And so what happened was, with the help of friends and family and really creative ideas, we thought like, How could have my son gotten the message about getting help and that this should be no shame asking for help. That's kind of how we came up with the concept, which is now our signature program, which is all over the country, but it really came stemmed from what type of event my son would have attended to get the message that it's okay to struggle with mental health issues. There's help out there. There's hope out there that you're not alone.

Nancy Barrow:

It's interesting. Like you said, you had these conversations at home because you're a social worker. How did that not resonate with him when he was off to college? Is it just, you know, out of sight, out of mind, that he didn't really think about what you have taught him?

Marisa Giarnella:

You know, it's all there's always, like, a confluence of factors when someone dies by suicide, and I think when you're in a dark place, I mean, this was the other component of all this. When you're a dark place, you really aren't thinking straight, right? And despite the fact that you had a loving family, a supportive family, a family that would have done anything right, and friends and all that, I think that may you may not recognize that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, that this is a blip in the journey, you know, of the transition, maybe, for him, it was college. So part of the component of what we built was to educate peers in recognizing the warning signs. You know, again, it's, there's two folds, like our program is about educating students and using the peer groups on campus, but it's also, you know, just kind of bringing that awareness and presenting it in a platform that there's heavy conversations happening, but it kind of normalizes the conversation. And again, this is this platform was started 13 years ago. It was developed. Our first pilot was back in 2012 at Eastern Connecticut State University. And so obviously the world has changed dramatically since then, and now you hear about people's struggles, and people talking about their struggles and getting help anybody, whether you're a celebrity or a politician, and it just everybody's more open about it, but it really wasn't the culture back then. Sometimes really surprised that we're like in 43 states and Puerto Rico and DC and over 370 colleges. But I think the program really resonated with students and understanding that there are resources, there's alternate coping skills when you're dealing with stress, and also the most important feeling for college students is that you're not alone. And I think that one of the things that my son struggled with, he probably thought he was the only person that didn't figure hadn't figured out what he. Wanted to do what his major was, struggling with the stress of being independent at college and having an open schedule, right? You go to class, you don't go to class, you study, you don't study, whatever it is. It's a big adjustment.

Nancy Barrow:

I think about how you started this a year after the tragic event with Jordan, and that may have been cathartic for you, maybe really trying to make something positive out of such a tragic situation, creating the Porco Foundation, the Jordan Porco foundation. Was it cathartic for you? And what is it now for you?

Marisa Giarnella:

It oh, it was, it was, there was a lot going on that first year, and I think the only way it happened was the support of family and friends and volunteers and people that really had that vision. And don't forget, I was part of a whole group of parents that just sent their kids off to college. Right? It was a successful pilot event that grew and then by 2015 and we went national, and we just kind of went through the growth of this and listening to people, listening to students, talking to colleges, understanding what the gaps were, understanding that, you know, at least from our perspective, you could spend a ton of money to have a speaker come in and only have a few people that are interested in psychology, or I know that my son would have never attended a suicide prevention event or a mental health event, and that's why we decide fresh strict day, because it really talked about that stuff, but had all the other elements that would be drawing students in from across campus. So it's that primary prevention approach that was really the success of this was what kind of event would my son had gone to understanding that he knew better, right, right and right, and I joke around with that in a very light way, but he knew better. You know, we did talk about mental health. We did talk about addiction. We did talk about all the different things that are risk factors for people who are emerging into adulthood. We know a lot of times the development of mental health issues may happen at that age, although they can happen at any age. Yeah, exactly. So he knew of other people who were struggling, yeah. So that's really how this whole thing came about. I look back, and I guess I don't think about it that much, I see that there's still a need. I'm thankful for the team that between the Board of Directors and volunteers and the clinical board and my colleagues on the Connecticut State suicide advisory board, and the support that I had for this vision is really what made it happen.

Nancy Barrow:

I know that Connecticut Paid Leave is going to be at some of your Fresh Check Days. That's great at local colleges. Yeah, we're going to be tabling there and giving our information out. Tell me what people should expect at a Fresh Check day, like, what can the students expect? And what can we expect from Fresh Check Day?

Marisa Giarnella:

So the planning usually takes about three, three months, and we work collaboratively with the colleges that sign up. And so there's usually a team of people on the college campuses that kind of gather their resources and their different student groups, and then they have this event, which is usually a couple hours, and you've got these interactive booths run by the student groups on campus. So it could be the women's group on campus, it could be the LGBT group on campus. It could be the health center or the Wellness Center, and you have, you might have therapy dogs and you have music or the dance team. Someone's teaching a yoga class. There's incentives for participation. We require that our student, the students, get, like, a punch card and visit, at least, you know, X amount of booths out of maybe 10 booths that are recommended, there's usually food, there's T shirts, there's giveaways, and it's this really festive, uplifting, positive environment talking about some heavy topics. So there's a booth that talks about the warning signs, and there's all the other when you think about college campuses and risk factors, whether it's sexual assault, whether it's problems with addiction, whatever the issues are, knowing that the resources are there, sometimes even just having the Counseling Center have a booth there, and knowing that the people on the other side of the table are just regular people. And it just kind of, you don't have to feel intimidated about maybe reaching out down the road or telling your roommate or your classmate, hey, you know what? I met these people. They're pretty cool, you know? Why don't you go down there and talk about what's going on? You know? And again, I think that the connectedness which college students need, they need to feel connected, and they also feel like they're not alone. We have booth activities that really kind of talk about that. There's a lot of kids on campus that, no matter what their persona is and how they're forward facing. They probably miss their family. They may be a little homesick. Maybe they miss their pet. Maybe they don't like, you know, they're struggling with their roommates, and miss their friends, or miss the routine that they had at home. They don't feel like this is the right fit. There's so many things going on during a college student's life, yeah, and as. Just we know that it is a privilege. There's also a lot of stress.

Nancy Barrow:

I look at college now and it's so different, you know, because social media is involved, tell me what your thoughts are about social media and the pressure to measure up.

Marisa Giarnella:

I know that there's been some studies that said the onset of the smartphone, which was 2011 the year, if my son died, there was a spike suicidal ideation. You know, suicides with the young population, like this 10 to 34 population of age group, there's the communication strategy that you have using a smartphone, right? You may say things that you wouldn't necessarily say in person. It's like there's an addiction factor. I think everybody knows that, right? If the Surgeon General said it's a public health issue. And so you've got developing minds a time in life, especially for young adolescents, middle school age kids, young emerging adults. People don't post the unhappy stuff. For the most part, it's always everybody's looking great. Everybody has a filter on everybody has a great life, and no one's really the relating, just all the exposure. If something goes wrong or you make a mistake, all of a sudden it's all over social media. It's easier to bully people. It is on social media. It's also easy now to get really bad information on some of these channels, and people are taking this information is truth. A lot of young people are relying on these platforms. And I also think there's a lot of good things happening, like people do find support, people do connect with people in different parts of the world who are struggling with similar issues. But I think a reliance, I mean, it's like, it's here, so it's we're never going to get rid of it. It definitely has an impact on the developing brain and our mental health in general.

Nancy Barrow:

Really meeting the students where they are is the best way to be effective. And I think these Fresh Check Days, I'm really excited that we're involved in it.

Marisa Giarnella:

Oh I'm excited that you are, too. And I think one of the things that we designed, way intentionally designed, is the uniqueness of every college campus. Every college campus in this in this country, knows what their kids need, right? And so the community college demographic may be a little different than a small private university up in the Berkshires, just say, or a small college, right? And they can, they can tailor their fresh check day to meet those needs community college, you've got students that might be having to take a couple of busses to get there, and might be working and supporting their families, you know they need to know what the resources are in their community, right? Because the community college can't provide everything, even though, with the new structure, I think they are doing a lot of really good work now that's intentionally designed so that, again, meeting the kids, where they are, and knowing, knowing your campus and kind of showcasing what you can offer the students.

Nancy Barrow:

Connecticut Paid Leave not only gives income replacement for mental health, it also gives income replacement if you are in an addiction program, and it also helps parents if They have to take their kids to doctor's appointments and things like that. How important are programs like this to help and assist what you do?

Marisa Giarnella:

As you can imagine, over the last, you know, many years, I've talked to so many families that are struggling with their kids and their or maybe their spouses or, you know, other other family members. And it's it's a hard system to navigate, and you may need time, because it's not cut and dry in terms of how you're going to access services. If your insurance company is going to pay for the services, where do you have to go? What's the waiting list at the same time, if you're a parent and you've got a child who's struggling, you actually need some support yourself, right, to kind of process everything that's going on.

Nancy Barrow:

And so you don't have to leave your job, right? You can have income replacement from us.

Marisa Giarnella:

Yeah, and which is really important, because, again, if there's more need than the resources, and we are in a resource rich state, and we still see that there's waiting lists and there's not enough prescribers and there's not enough beds, and so a family member who doesn't, who's not familiar, even people who are familiar with the system, are struggling getting what they need for their kids or themselves. But if you are new to this world, and this is the first time that you're trying to access mental health services or addiction services or, you know, some type of program for disordered eating, whatever your issue is, it's complicated. Having that support this program is, I think, really critical.

Nancy Barrow:

Tell me about preparation for college. What can we do better?

Marisa Giarnella:

Well that was something that we thought about way back then, and a lot of and I, you know, I was, I was roped into it as well as a parent. Oh, my God. You know you've got to do all these things to build your resume, to do your application, to get into a good college. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All the academic preparation was emphasized in high school, but not anything else you know. What are your SAT scores? What do you know but the emotional preparedness? I don't think we even talked as much, even though the gap years were. Available. I don't think we ever talked about, well, maybe college isn't for you, or maybe you should just take a year and just figure, like they do in Europe, like just take a year off and figure out what you want to do. It'll still be there, but this pressure to go with the same class and graduate in four years and all that kind of stuff there is that isn't for everybody. And in all reality, it's like college isn't the answer for everybody. We need people to go into the trades. There's a lot of people who end up getting their four year degree and then go back to school to get some type of certificate or something to do a different kind of job. I think that we need to spend a little bit more time exploring those options and understanding the readiness component. We just can't send kids to school and expect that colleges are going to take care of everything that is not, you know, this whole "in loco parentis" kind of thing. It's they've got a lot going on in these college campuses. There is a lot going on on college campuses, unfortunately, and there's only so many resources. So, you know, sometimes it's a level of maturity, sometimes it's just the stress of transition. We do know that at any point during a lifetime, transition, times like if you lose a job, if you get divorced. I mean, those are high risk times for people who may be, who may develop a mental illness, right, may develop anxiety or depression or something else. So we, I think we need to talk about the emotional readiness, the soft skills that you need some of the other things that, and I think we need to start in high school.

Nancy Barrow:

Yeah, you do have a program in high school, right?

Marisa Giarnella:

We've modified our Fresh Check Day program, our college program for high schools and middle schools and communities and businesses if they want to do that. And we have another Psychological Resilience Program, just to start having the conversation, just to talk about different scenarios, different coping skills, you know, how would you handle it, just opening up those pre conversations with students, to kind of get them thinking about this stuff. And how do you handle challenges? How do you handle, you know, time and money. You know, these are all kinds of things that get kids in trouble later on in life, right? Time management is important. It is important. You're trying to go to school, you're trying to have a little job, something like that. Like all these things make things more stressful.

Nancy Barrow:

How do you feel the transition can get a little easier for kids going to college. I know you had a second child, a daughter. How did you do things differently with her?

Marisa Giarnella:

I think I tried to do more research, although she was very convinced where she wanted to end up going. You know, I was worried about things about, you know, being away from school. What are the resources on campus? And what happens if, you know she needs some help you want to trust but again, the schools have different philosophies and different resources and different, you know, different priorities. So you're not always guaranteed that you're going to get what you think you might be getting on a college campus. And I think so for parents to open up those conversations early on, as early as you can, what are your go to strategies when things are getting feeling overwhelming? I mean, I think we need to have that, yeah, that conversation, and if it's not with the parents, but look, definitely a trusted adult like I think parents need to tell kids, okay, if you don't feel comfortable coming to me, make sure you talk to your aunt or your uncle or whoever, somebody you know. I think it's more important now to keep the communication opening, not feeling shame if you are feeling like you're struggling with somebody or just and now with, you know, there's telehealth, there's so many different options, I think, that came out of the pandemic that really weren't an option before, especially in parts of the country, where there's rural communities where it could take a couple hours to go get a an appointment with a face to face with a therapist or social worker or counselor. Right Understanding that, you know, we have the 988, national hotline. You know, we have a text Crisis Text Line. There are people out there to talk to you who can help you through things, whether you're struggling with something, or your child or your you know, there are, there are resources out there. And so I think we've made some serious gains in the last decade to address this issue, which is, you know, again, number one, I believe depression number one, public health issue and loneliness. Now, you know, with those, the more that we have, you know, we're connected with technology, the more we're finding indicators of loneliness and isolation.

Nancy Barrow:

Remote work is a real thing, and people not going into an office every day, that can be difficult for some people. Some people can handle that, and some people can't handle that. You know, it's not as easy for them. It's the same thing with you know, how kids learned during the pandemic. You know, some kids did great with learning on the computer. Some kids needed that interaction. So I do feel like you're right. I think you know, having that connectedness is really important and can help. Yeah, who do you think is most at risk for suicide? Is it as prevalent in girls as it is in boys?

Marisa Giarnella:

There's been some statistics with the Youth Risk Behavior Survey that there's been an increase with young adolescent girls. Hmm. Primarily, it's still your white, middle aged man. There's been some interesting statistics in terms of how things are trending. I think overall, consider all young people right now, between 10 and 34, second leading cause of death. People are at risk. People young adults are coming out of a pandemic with sometimes more anxiety. Young people are trying to navigate everything that they hear every day, and I know that adults are having trouble processing and digesting everything that's getting hit we're getting hit with. And nobody can figure out what's real anymore, between whatever you want to call it the AI and this and that it's just it's getting more and more complicated, right? And in general, I My advice to people is get educated about this topic. There's so many websites out there. Know who your resources are in your community. Maybe you don't need it now, but you're going to need to know and have these open conversations about you know, if you have a story and then you had a period in your life where you struggled, but you got through it, and you can share how you got through it. That helps somebody you never know, who's that that's going to help? Yeah, you're right. Like, we don't, you know, we don't have a problem talking about, oh my god, I broke my leg playing pickleball, you know, and I went to a doctor and, you know, whatever, I had surgery. We need to normalize the conversations about mental health, and that will allow more and more people to go out and get help, the help that they need.

Nancy Barrow:

What are some of the signs of suicide that if you have a friend or a family member that you're worried about?

Marisa Giarnella:

Well, there's the obvious signs, like somebody may actually say, you know, I feel like, you know, I want to die. I've got no reason for living. There are some, you know, very strong statements that someone may say that you have to take seriously and you need to act on, like a 911, level of acting. And then there's the other subtle, some when sometimes they're not so subtle, but somebody's no longer enjoys activities that they used to do. They're isolating more. They're not sleeping, they're sleeping too much. They're eating, not eating enough. They're eating too you know, there's all the or they're just look a little disheveled. They're making comments. Maybe they're giving away possessions. They they have this, like hopelessness feeling, or this, like a level of agitation with anxiety that they just can't get themselves. There could be anger. You know, there's so many different signs that somebody may be struggling with a mental health issue, right? Because anxiety can be as debilitating as depression and the you know, people's history, people's family history, people need to know what's happened in the family, right? And then if you add alcohol or drugs, so that's the co-occurring disorders, and increases risk right access to lethal means like one of the things that we're doing here in the state is, you know, putting barriers, putting signage on bridges, working with people who are selling guns to say, look, you know, nobody wants these tragedies to happen. Put a, you know, make sure that there's a lock box. Or, you know, I mean, having these conversations really makes a difference, right? And understanding like the full picture of risk, my training and my experience, it's a five minute decision. The lethality of using a gun is a lot different than maybe some other mean, you're right potentially. And, you know, reducing the risk by eliminating some of those things when somebody's in crisis. I mean, it's not like we're taking somebody's rights away, but it's a safety thing. And not be afraid to ask the question, to think, well, if I ask the question, I'm putting the thought of the suicide in their mind. We need know that over a million people attempt suicide every day. People do struggle with thoughts of suicide at different points of time in their life. Sometimes, if you ask the question, it actually is going to relieve the burden that someone's keeping a secret inside. And so there's, there's, there's training available, and we all should be able to be able to feel comfortable asking that question.

Nancy Barrow:

Is it different for a parent talking to a child like, is that conversation any different than what it would be, friend to friend, peer to peer?

Marisa Giarnella:

I think it could be, depending on the comfort level of that parent to have those conversations sometimes in these communities where everybody's got to be have the perfect life and the perfect lawn and the perfect job. And the kids going, they're doing well, they're taking all these AP classes. I'm talking like high school kids, right? Everything on the outside looks great, but you know, and do you have to keep up this persona, whatever? Do you have to keep up this image at what expense? Right? The flip side of it is, if your kid sees you taking care of yourself and taking care of your like, they model what we do, right?

Nancy Barrow:

Yeah, they they learn by example.

Marisa Giarnella:

They learn by example. And if you kind of normalize that conversation at home, it becomes easier. I mean, I think there's lots of opportunities when things come up in the media to say, hey, you know, you know that whole trick about having the kids in the car, you know, and try to talk to them when they're like, you know? A captive audience to say, hey, you know, what do you think about this, you know? Or what do you think about you know? Do you know anybody? Do you see this? Do you ever feel this way? I mean, I think it takes, got to start young.

Nancy Barrow:

What advice would you give survivors of suicide?

Marisa Giarnella:

I haven't been asked that question a long time. But personally, especially as a social worker who did a lot of risk management work in her career, you know, my career here, I knew I needed to get help. I needed to talk to other survivors. For personally, I read a lot of books because you have to, you keep on replaying so much in your head. What did I do? What did I miss? We know all that kind of stuff. A lot of it's a very complicated losing someone to suicide is very complicated. And there's a statistics out there with the AFSP that says 135 people are affected by every suicide death. That's a lot of people. That's a lot of it's a lot of people. And so trying to wrap yourself around the shoulda, coulda, whatever right is, is one thing, but talking to other people who have walked your walk really helped me. I attended support groups, I did a lot of reading, spent a lot of one on one time with other moms who had gone through this. Some people knew that their kids were struggling. Some people didn't. It's all that and do, I guess when someone dies and you know you lose a son, you lose a daughter, you know you lose a spouse, it's your new normal. All of a sudden, you the date starts from that date, right? In terms of how you remember stuff it was pre, pre that date, or after that date. And for me, I found some comfort in gardening, right? So I spent a lot of time kind of getting lost in the garden, and it took a lot of walks, and I had to take care of myself, and I had to ask for help, like I was the kind I wasn't the person that said, Oh yeah, you know, come help me out with this or that. But I had to really, kind of change my attitude and say, I need to, I can't do this. You know, this grief is exhausting and it and it goes through phases, and it comes through waves and and, you know, and obviously getting the help of a therapist was really helpful to me.

Nancy Barrow:

I wish that Connecticut Paid Leave was around back then for you, so you could have gotten some relief and taken some time off of you know, your job as a social worker to take care of yourself. You know, that's one thing we have up to three months, up to 12 weeks of income replacement, and that can make a difference for somebody who's struggling.

Marisa Giarnella:

I was really lucky to work for an agency that was so understanding and so patient. And I really, and I don't know that if I worked in another industry or another type of setting, I would have had that ability. So yes, I agree that, you know, if you need that time, it does help.

Nancy Barrow:

What would you like people to know about Jordan?

Marisa Giarnella:

He again, you know, would be the last kid that you thought would die by suicide, and he had a lot of friends. He was well liked. He was a funny kid. Loved to be outdoors, love to snowboard, you know, skateboard. He was just your regular, goofy kid. You know, he just, he was a great kid, even though it's been so many years, different things trigger you. You know, it's not just those photos that pop up on your phone in terms of memories, but the grocery store, right? Or a time of year, a season, you know, the back to school, And a song. Jordan was really into music. He

Nancy Barrow:

A song. loved to put together these little playlists for his friends on these CDs back then, when, you know, before all this technology came in and loved to do videos and put them to music, and, you know, maybe that's what would have been his career down the road. I don't know, but he was really kind of talented for what was available, technology wise, back in 2010 and 2011 but, yeah, you know, it's, it's a long journey, and it's always, you know, my heart, it will be always broken. I always, kind of, it's really sad to say, but, yeah, that's how. But I also look, I'm very grateful for all the gifts that I have in my life and all the good things that come out it. You're a special human being. And I really just want to thank you, Marisa Giarnella for coming in and talking about this topic during Suicide Prevention Month, and I know it's hard, and I appreciate you being able to talk about it. I just think that you need to know how special you are.

Marisa Giarnella:

Well thank you so much, and thank you for the opportunity to be able to talk about the Jordan Porco foundation and talk about this topic, which really probably needs to be talked about more than once a year, right? But kind of can impact a lot of people. I think way back, we didn't know so many people that died by suicide, but now you hear it a lot more.

Nancy Barrow:

And I think normalizing mental health, like you said, is the way to go. Thank you again for being on The Paid Leave Podcast.

Marisa Giarnella:

Thank you.

Nancy Barrow:

The National Suicide Prevention Hotline for immediate help is 1-800-273-8255, you can text home to 741, 741 dial 988, or you can dial 211, to find mental health support in your area. Of course, 911, in an emergency. For more information or to apply for benefits, go to ctpaideave.org This has been another edition of the paid leave podcast. Please like and subscribe so you'll be notified about new podcasts that become available Connecticut. Paid Leave is a public act with a personal purpose. I'm Nancy Barrow, and thanks for listening.

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