The Paid Leave Podcast

Doulas deliver emotional and postpartum support to mothers.

• The Connecticut Paid Leave Authority • Season 3 • Episode 18

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May is Maternal Mental Health Month. During the month, the focus is on increasing awareness about mental health and the well-being of mothers during pregnancy and the time after birth. About 10-15% of women experience postpartum depression. Mental health issues are the most common complication of childbirth. Doulas can help alleviate some of the emotional stress and burden from a parent as they help recognize what the parent needs. 
Guests Brittany Needham and Shannon Knox created Golden Radiance Village, a holistic full spectrum doula company. They talked about what they do as doula's and the certifications and training they went through and how their friendship and business partnership grew. Doulas provide support to mothers regarding prenatal care and post-partum care which can include post-partum depression, which can be considered a serious health condition under CT Paid Leave. Shannon and Brittany talk about some of the signs families and friends should be looking for with post-partum depression. They talk about the emotional struggles for single parents, and how doula work can really help parents through trying times.
Shannon and Brittany both think CT Paid Leave is a great service to offer their clients, because it can give new parents a chance to have time away from work, and to focus on their new baby and their own health needs and not worry about finances. 

For more information or to get a hold of Golden Radiance Village go to: About Us — Golden Radiance Village

For information or to sign up for benefits: go to : CT Paid Leave

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Nancy Barrow:

Hello, Connecticut and welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. The title basically says it all. I'm Nancy Barrow and I will be delving into this new state program and how it can help you and your family. This podcast will give you information you should know about Connecticut Paid Leave, and maybe just a little bit more. Connecticut Paid Leave brings peace of mind to your home, family and workplace. Welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. May is Maternal Mental Health Month, and during the month the focus is on increasing awareness about mental health and the well being of mothers during pregnancy and the time shortly after birth. About 10 to 15% of women experienced postpartum depression, also known as PPD. Mental health issues are the most common complication of childbirth. Regardless of the way you're starting or expanding your family, you may be eligible for up to 12 weeks of income replacement under Connecticut Paid Leave. Postpartum depression may be considered a serious health condition. Doulas provide support and education about pre and post partum depression. And joining me to talk about maternal mental health month is Shannon Knox and Brittany Needham. Both are holistic full spectrum, doulas, and founders of Golden Radiance Village and welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast Brittany and Shannon.

Shannon:

Thank you.

Brittany:

Thank you for having us.

Nancy Barrow:

Can you tell me maybe what a doula is? Let's start at the beginning.

Brittany:

So doulas are not medical professionals who support birthing, expecting parents, you know postpartum parents throughout their maternal health or peer or paternal health journey. They provide support in mental health, physical, emotional, financial, social, spiritual support throughout pregnancy, labor and for postpartum. And I don't know, Shana, if you want to add anything to a little bit more about what you're listening for. Yeah.

Shannon:

I think you spoke like, deeply about the birth, birth, doulas, but there's so there's like a wide spectrum of doula work. So you know, preconception, bereavement, it's like all of the ranges we support with all those things during all those major life transitions. We look at the whole person, not just like in their whole environmental experience, and take all those things into consideration as we're providing care.

Nancy Barrow:

Tell me a little bit about Golden Radiance Village and how you both created this doula business together.

Brittany:

So I am a full spectrum doula, and in 2020, I became certified and 2019. And during 2020, you know, when the pandemic happened, um, it really shifted a lot of the ways that, you know, doulas could show up in support. So during my journey of you know, wanting to get the word out, you know, and let people know who I was as a doula I was taking a lot of time, um, and just marketing and you know, bringing more awareness to what doulas are what we do. And in that time, Shannon had a friend that referred her to me. And I supported Shannon, during her labor and 2020. And from there, we kind of just continued our relationship. Um, you know, we just continued on learning each other. In that time I was learning, I focused a lot more on the birth side of being a doula, but when, you know, after Shannon had her son, that's really where a bigger awareness to the support in the postpartum really became, like, just, like just important and, you know, shifting could definitely speak on this but and Shannon's experience, being a doula and then being a mom, she really saw that difference and noticing how postpartum is kind of just not the focus, it's not really and a lot of moms are struggling and you know, so that's kind of like how we kept our relationship. And I am a radiant love doula and Shannon is the moon doula. So we decided to combine her names and we created Golden Radiance Village, you know, where we really come up work together to ensure the holistic well being of melanated families throughout their entire parenting journey.

Nancy Barrow:

So that must have been really a lot of pressure. Let me just let me just say that Britt for being a doula also being a doula for a doula?

Brittany:

Yes, yeah.

Shannon:

I never thought about that.

Nancy Barrow:

Yeah. So was there pressure for you like, did you feel like Oh, I wonder if she's like, looking at me like making all the checkmarks like she she did that check she did this check?

Shannon:

That is funny.

Brittany:

I mean, I guess I'm thinking back on it. No, it I maybe there was a little bit of pressure, but at the same time, it's like it was it was just so it was just it was easy. I really it was just authentic. You know, when we had our meetings, you know, we just talked and we just held space, I held space space for Shannon. And then during her labor like, even as we're working together, like at a certain point, we just became in sync and Shannon would either have a look on her face and she would do a tap and I just knew.

Shannon:

There were a million people there only person I saw was Britney. I like Brenda. Brittany!

Nancy Barrow:

Shannon, tell me about the experience for you.

Shannon:

Yeah, I'm for the labor or just altogether altogether.

Nancy Barrow:

For altogether. For working with with Brittany.

Shannon:

Oh Gosh yes. Um, um, so I feel like okay. As a doula I always reflected and saw this way. Like I helped a lot of moms supported a lot of moms and for free, like, I did a lot of volunteer work, right. I feel like Brittany was the gift that was sent to me during that really tough time in my life. Brittany had my back. Like, in ways I don't even know if I even dove into some of the ways that you supported me through some of the hardest parts. And I just really appreciate her. She came through with their birth ball, she came through prepared onpoint affirmations on point when I was ready to give up because as a doula, you see the mom say, I can't do this. I didn't think I was going to be I can't do this mom, and I sure was! Y ou can and you're going to. And Brittany was an amazing doula for me, I I have nothing but gratitude, and become a business partners and amazing business partner. And I'm just so happy to be supporting families with her.

Nancy Barrow:

I'm so glad I got to meet you too, because I think it's a really special relationship. But tell me a little bit Shannon, about the complications that you had during your pregnancy?

Shannon:

Yeah, that that was a really hard time because one I was in a relationship with with domestic violence it was bad. Yeah. So that caused a lot of issues. In my in, within my wellness, within the pregnancy, I had anemia, I had the digestional diabetes, all these things that like I went from prefect health, athlete, to pregnancy kicked my butt like life experience. And so in labor, I think I labored for three days, it was a journeyn and Brittany was there the whole time, like, well, for real. But I stalled, because when you're laboring all your trauma and drama shows up in your mental, your mental, like your psyche. So it was hard for me to get over that. And I stopped Yeah, I stalled out. The three days took me out.

Nancy Barrow:

Wow, that's I'm sorry about the whole domestic violence . I just want to state Connecticut Paid Leave does help with that with family violence, we give up to 12 days of income replacement. So you can get the help that you need, whether it's mental health, or whether you have to go to a doctor for injuries that you had, or whether you need social services or whether you need to go to court. So Connecticut Paid Leave does cover that which I think is so important that we have that available to women, I know that you kind of specialize in that too, as well. So if you do run across people, please let them know that Connecticut Paid Leave is here for them and can help them with at least 12 days of income replacement, which can be the difference between getting out and and not getting out.

Shannon:

Yes, that's so true. I wish this was existed when it was my time. Right. Any and everybody I know that has this experience. Yeah.

Nancy Barrow:

Yeah. Well, thank you. Because I do think that's an important factor, you know, that we can do that as well. So what is the best part of your job being a doula?

Brittany:

Just seeing or being there through that journey and being just seeing, you know, them start from point A, and then you know, get to point B, because one thing you know, as me is, I'm really passionate about education I'm really passionate about, I believe that to be informed is to be for forewarned, and when you do have that information that gives you that that knowledge, it gives you power back, and I think when I see that in mom's, because you know, like Shannon said, you know, you're on one side, and then you get in that space, and you wouldn't ever think that that would be there and you have those thoughts. And you know, that internal turmoil, those things coming up, reminding moms of that inner power that is in them and just affirming them and holding that space for them. I think that's my favorite part of just being yeah, being a doula and seeing them have that realization. Maybe it's not in that moment, but meeting them where they are and then help fostering them to get to that place. I think that's really like my favorite part of being a doula.

Shannon:

I think for me, it's a combo pack, because it's always, of course reminding mamas and birthing people of their power. Just reminding us, it's in there and they know it, just bringing it back bringing it out, you know, but then also just like community, because people are so beautiful, I love just hearing people getting to know them, figuring out how to show up for them. And it's just a gift to be in their lives during such a vulnerable and important and special and sacred time.

Nancy Barrow:

That's wonderful. Brittany, you had mentioned certification, tell me what kind of training or certification goes into being a doula.

Brittany:

Um, so a little, you know, story with me, I'm heavy on education, and I am. I have a health education degree, I have my master's degree in education. So I'm very passionate when it comes to, you know, me learning for myself, but also being able to share that information, share that knowledge with others. But I know Connecticut as far as being a doula Connecticut does not yet have you know, they're working on, you know, certification requirements for being a doula, but when I first started, um, I started with a online program where I did a lot of self study, um, I think it was Medulla. I'm blanking on the name right now. So I'm sorry about that. I think it was Madrella Doula Network, I started with a online version, you know, kind of just reading, doing a lot of self study. But in that, I realized that I could teach myself all of these things, but I need to be there I need hands on. That's really how you learn. That's really how you get that experience. So I further my education, I found a doula program on that was based out of Connecticut, Earth's Natural Touch, and I wanted to train with them, because they had an extensive 14 month training, it was rooted and you know, black culture was rooted in just community work. So I wanted to train I trained with them, and it was supposed to be in person, but their 2020 happened. So once again, like I said, that really changed the trajectory. And it was still, you know, we did virtual support, we did virtual learning again. So I was like, you know, that's great. I did my my 14 months, I did my training, but I still need hands on, I still need more. And although I did support families, you know, in actually like I was able to support Shannon and be at her birth is still, I still needed more. So, recently, I just obtained my certification through Douna, and that was an in person and it was, um, it was in person, I traveled to North Carolina, to be taught by black woman, and it was a great, it was a great training, she really had, um, just gave that full, it was just a full knowledge of the history of, you know, black birth in America, the changes and you know, each century and just really gave us like, a great foundation and knowledge into that. And on top of that, the knowledge that was in the room, also played a role in, you know, just just being in space and being able to learn like Shannon as a community and learn people and learn their skills. That was where, you know, I was able to have that in person hands on training. So for me, you know, my journey is a little different. I receive three different types of doula training because I'm passionate about education, I'm passionate about really learning. So yeah, that's kind of like, you know, that process there. Um, you know, as far as becoming a certified doula and you know, having my births and reading my books, and, you know, recording these experiences, um, so I can be certified. And yeah, that's kind of like my journey as a doula certification but Shannon, you have you trained differently. So I don't want to share on that.

Shannon:

Yeah, so I trained at down in South Florida with Southern birth Justice Network. We did an in person, three day intensive training, where we learned like, everything. There were so many like doulas, who have been doing this work, forever, midwives. Jamara Amani was there she like, you know, is one of the founders of SPJ n. And they they taught us so much, but the hands on aspect of it is learning it face to face makes such a big difference because that was like seven years ago, and I still remember these skills. So I'm very grateful for that training. And then, after the three day training, we had a year of like, we had to do births with our mentor. We did three births with the mentor three births without our mentor and then kind of gone from there and they support it with like business and how to conduct business well, policy like how to navigate the birth world. There's a really great program I highly recommend it. They're still doing great things. Yeah, it's a great and I love SPJN. And because they're very inclusive, inclusive as well, like, Poland is a different environment, different feel. So like, we're they're very trans friendly. And like even our material everything is like birthing person, like it was very I love it I love everything about that.

Nancy Barrow:

May marks the start of Maternal Mental Health Awareness Month, tell me what that sort of means to both of you and and have you come across women who've been depressed pre birth and post birth with postpartum.

Shannon:

The clients that have had the experience birth, it always starts with depletion. I want to throw that out there because needs aren't met, your basic needs are not met, you haven't took a ta ke a shower or you don't know what you're going to eat like.

Brittany:

I think understanding that it shows up differently for everyone. And that, you know, the way that mental health, you know, our mental health since you know COVID and being in that, you know, the isolation stage a lot of times, it really means that we need to come together more we need to speak more on and no longer silencing or keeping things quiet, but talking more and when we talk more about our experiences that really allows us to really build that community, build that village, build that connection, and realize that we're not alone that we don't need to isolate. And it also means to me, it's really understanding. Like I said, it shows up differently for everyone how signs may mirror each other. If you're you know how the pre existing conditions can, you know, also prelude um to mental health. So just having that knowledge that it can show up differently for individuals, and just being able for us to really talk about that and hold space for each other. Yeah, that's just bringing awareness and having that access to and having that space. That's really important to me as like, you know, we're moving into May, and bringing awareness to that maternal mental health.

Nancy Barrow:

When you're a couple It's hard enough, what kind of barriers do single moms face?

Shannon:

Oh My God

Brittany:

It's a loaded one.

Shannon:

Yeah, because we have to literally do everything, everything that the let's taking care of your baby, we got no feed diapering measures, breastfeeding, well make sure they're safe, everything. And then ourselves, while also holding baby, doing everything you got to do while also holding baby, getting around. There's just everything. There's so many things that we have to navigate again, and then it's a heavy mental load, there's no breaks, literally no mental breaks is even when your baby if you were to have somebody watch your child, you have that that luxury. You're thinking about that child like? Yeah, I have to, I should have thought about that one in advance cuz.

Nancy Barrow:

It's a it's a big one. But you know, being that you are a single mom, do you have people who come and help you and does does a doula help you in that transition from birth and moving forward? Like if you were in a postpartum situation, does a doula help in that aspect?

Shannon:

They can. It depnds on the doula you're working with, Britt sure helped me! That' how we built this bond. One thing I'd love to say is like, I really want families to learn how to be in relationship with pregnant and postpartum women, again, there's a lot of unhealthy dynamics. And folks need to really understand how vulnerable we are adults during these times. It's not the same person anymore, you had like you would treat that baby, treat that Mama, like be very careful, loving, delicate pour into that Mama, and that birthing person. For me, I had, I had housing, and I have food for my family. And I and I have so much gratitude for that because you know, didn't really have to do that. So, but as far as everything else goes, I had Brittany for mental support happen. And my therapist shout out to my therapist at Quality Counseling, wouldn't have made it without Brittany and my therapist. Yeah.

Nancy Barrow:

And that's so important, right? Like getting that mental health that you need. I know a doula can sit and talk to you and be supportive of you. But actually getting the mental health professional that you need. That's important. And do you offer that to mamas, like, do you as a doula, say, hey, I can help you, you know, I can listen to you and I can help you. But if you're finding that they're in a place where you can't help them, do you offer services, or do you have therapists that you can offer to them?

Shannon:

Yes we do! We always refer out for to Quality Counseling for sure. They're in Hamden, they accept Husky they do in person and virtual support. And then also there's New Chapter Counseling S ervices. They're in Bloomfield, they accept husky, and they're in. They also have virtual sessions as well, great practices. I've spoken to the therapist, like I have built a relationship and can trust to send Mama's and burden people their way.

Nancy Barrow:

Well, there's stigma around maternal mental health in the black community, how can we help that stigma go away? And do you have any part in that?

Shannon:

I think it's talking about It

Brittany:

I was gonna say you gotta talk about it.

Shannon:

And anytime that like, I'll hear somebody speak about it poorly, or try to shame or blame or make anybody feel any kind of way I checked them. No, we're not going to do that here. Actually, you know, like, I provide facts and feedback because we all deserve to heal. And like if we're having a hard time shaming all the slanders and going to help us do that, you know. Yeah.

Nancy Barrow:

A study from the National Library of Medicine said that doula guidance in perinatal care was associated with positive delivery outcomes, including reduced C sections, premature deliveries and length of labor, and the emotional support provided by doulas was seen to reduce anxiety and stress and doula support specifically in low income women, was shown to improve breastfeeding success with quicker Lacta Genesis and continued breastfeeding weeks after childbirth, which I know can be really tough. That's a really tough one. And I know you guys helped with that. And the study went on to say that doulas can be a great resource for birthing mothers and consideration should be given to using them more as they may have a positive impact on the well being of the mother and the child. And they also raised questions about the accessibility of doulas and how they may help mitigate health disparities among women from different socio economic levels. And when you hear that study from the National Library of Medicine, I mean, that must really feel great and validate exactly what you are doing.

Brittany:

Very affriming yes. And it goes back to you know, just one thing that you know, as doulas being holistic doulas, it's important for us to who's on your team, we ask her mom's who's on what's your support look like? What is your support team, as a part of that, you know, is having the mental health support, the nutrition, the spiritual, the intellectual, you know, having all of that entire, you know, the entire dimension of wellness, our entire circle of care be rooted in with the mom, or the family in the middle. But just having that team is really important. And that is why those that study can, it's affirming because it's it's one of our values to make sure that the family is the center, and that team is surrounding them and having those conversations so that we can start developing that team and you can start seeing, you know, who was going to be supportive of you who was going to meet you where you are? And you know, it's having those boundaries? And, and yeah, that that yeah, it was really affirming to hear that because that's what you know, we stand on as holistic doulas to ensure that.

Nancy Barrow:

One of the great things that you mentioned was teamwork. Caregivers, like coming to help single moms like you had to deal with Shannon. Another thing about Connecticut Paid Leave as we do the caregiver leave so it doesn't matter what your family looks like. And it doesn't have to be blood related. It can be related by affinity. So if your best friend is like your sister, like your best friend can take up to 12 weeks of income replacement and help you and I think that that's a beautiful thing for someone who is a single mom and where is the help that you need? If a family member is concerned about someone who's having or had a baby What are some of the signs that that maybe a family member or their team should be looking for that maybe you haven't seen what what should they look at for signs of maternal mental health issues?

Shannon:

If you see them preferring isolation, things like that. It really depends on their personality type like who they were before and after you want to pay attention if there's like major shifts. If they're not eating the sleep deprivation kicks everybody's butt, but when you notice if they're experiencing psychosis are saying they're seeing or like hearing things and you definitely want to watch out for that.

Brittany:

There's anxiety there's a sleeping a lot there's they're not either not wanting to hold the baby there's the paranoia, you know, change in appetite not wanting to eat excessive worry, you know, having suicidal suicidal thoughts or you know, thoughts or maybe yeah, harming the baby harming yourself, you know, feeling guilt guilt is a huge one. Um, you know, that we see a lot of our moms talk about not wanting to leave their baby or wanting to take care of themselves, but feeling guilty for wanting to take care of themselves, these are all like just little signs, or major signs that you know, as the people that know, you know, the the family and being able to be aware of those is really important for, you know, us, just be aware of that. And us also, like I said before, it shows up differently for everyone. You know, if it's someone that was highly active before, and now they just have loss of interest in things are, they're just, you know, so it's really important. And that's why, you know, as a doula, it's always saying, we don't come to replace anyone in the family, we are not replacements, we come to compliment, it's important that you have, or, you know, you have someone that knows you, um, you know, having that, that that relationship before and so that we can learn from the people that know you, also learning from the mom and the family who they are and combining the two so that we can make sure we are really encompassing the the support this actually meeting and having those needs met. Um, so yeah, it's very important that we all that teamwork, you know, we're all here to work as a team to just really provide that support for the family.

Shannon:

I stay with my clients, at least three months after one I lived with for a little while and actually supported. Wow, it was really fun. I was happy to be there for it. But we stay in touch. We have like all Facebook friends, and a lot of people run their practices different, but I stay in touch with my clients.

Nancy Barrow:

How do you think a program like Connecticut Paid Leave can help your clients who might be going through some emotional troubles after birth?

Shannon:

Just learning that the time is there for them? That alone is everything, it can make the biggest difference from somebody like being stuck in situations they do not need to be in to be able to get ahead in life. And then it's Yeah, I love the program and all the things I'm learning about it. It's just, it really honors mamas and families, it centers them in their need. And it's such a gift.

Brittany:

Yes. Okay. So yes, just having the option there have like shares and having that option there to just relieve that pressure, relieve that, how am I going to work or I have to get back or you know, and also it allows, I think it's great for one knowing the option, but then also being able to prepare, you know, prepare for the time that you'll have off, you know, being able to really be present and not worry about your work, not worry about your responsibilities, but worrying about just you being a parent and you bonding with your baby, learning yourself as a new mom as a new dad just having that, I think it's great ! I think it is. I mean, I know that Connecticut, we have one of the we have one of those longer I think what is it? 12 weeks? Yeah, 12 weeks, weeks.

Nancy Barrow:

If there's complications, you get 14 weeks, you get an extra two weeks if there's complications.

Brittany:

Yeah so yeah, just being able to have that option, I think is beautiful. And I think it really allows parents to just be present with their baby with their like, you know, and just with their family and being able to navigate that. It takes that mental load off. Yeah, just I mean, as it just takes that mental load off of not having to because you know, sometimes as women will we take on a lot of things and take on a lot of responsibilities. And you know, not only are we the mom but we're also sometimes the therapist, sometimes we're the coordinator sometimes we're the the analysts and we're brains are always going always going so mentally, it's just stop, be present. Be where you are be with your baby be with your family.

Nancy Barrow:

Well thank you Shannon and Brittany, the founders of Golden Radiance Village for all this wonderful information, and thank you so much for coming on The Paid Leave Podcast.

Shannon:

Of course Thank you.

Brittany:

Thanks for having us.

Nancy Barrow:

For more information, you can go to CT Paid Leave.org. This has been another edition of The Paid Leave Podcast. Please like and subscribe so you'll be notified about new podcasts that become available. Connecticut Paid Leave is a public act with a personal purpose. I'm Nancy Barrow and thanks for listening!

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